Engineers are all politically apathetic.
Did that get your attention? lol.
I actually noticed this really odd trend amongst all the engineers (friends, bloggers, acquaintances) I know. They really don’t give a rat’s ass about politics. They think politics is just dirty and that politics won’t change a thing. They sit there comfortably in their cushy jobs (often overseas or in GLCs) just watching social, economical and political issues go by without flinching one bit. There is just no passion for social change because either they are too distant from it or they are borderline happy with their own lives (and not necessarily thinking about others).
Why? Is it the system? Is the the people? Are activists and opposition politicians not doing the right thing?
I’m genuinely looking for suggestions, answers and opinions :)
November 13th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Because their work won’t land them in ISA, see.
I was a Computer Scientist and didn’t give a hoot about politics. If I work in IT or do IT research it won’t land me in ISA.
And then I decided to do a postgraduate diploma in Sociology and ended up getting all concerned about politics. And then Wong Chin Huat showed up and ended up having an office on the same floor as my research room and I got even more passionate after talking to Chin Huat about Ijok :)
November 13th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
hahahaha…thk god i didnt take engineering! my friends surely wudn’t like this post li Tsin ;p
maybe its bcoz they were trained in such way..read the book, follow procedure..just like the computer programmers..they just follow procedures and steps ..wouldn’t venture out from it..
or simply..they have a tooo damn gud live that they think everything is fine, let the status quo remain. (aa..this is so true esp for those in the oil n gas industry)
and yeah..one more reason is bcoz the lifestyle..already too busy kot..wen i was in KLCC..the Ptrnas ppl there will read news in theSun, ‘geleng-geleng’ their kepala in disbelief ..n life goes on..for them its just another news item..
November 13th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Well… I am a civil engineer. I do not agree with the statement “ Engineers are all politically apathetic. ”
At least I read Malaysiakini’s, Tony Pua’s, Jeff Ooi’s websites/ blogs… (just to name a few) and YOURS almost daily…
In fact I feel “uneasy” if I don’t vist any of the websites/ blogs that day.
November 13th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
kamikaze: awesome you’re an engineer! and i’m so happy to be proven wrong. so share with me, why the interest with politics or current events? what about fellow engineers, do they share your sentiments? i’d love to hear your views :) thanks!
the rest: thanks for the input! :)
November 13th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Naturally, majority of engineers are very much behind the scene guy, doing things and getting things done with major focus on result. For engineers, if a person talks too much especially in a meeting, seminar, etc, more often than not, he is not doing his work or not capable of doing his work effectively. His noise is basically to camouflage his weaknesses from being noticed and to deflect attention. This sounds like a politician character, doesn’t it? In engineers world, politician = bad engineer. But remember, engineer is very analytical. When it comes to vote, these engineers would normally use their analytical skill correctly ….:), and that is real politic to them.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Hey, I also in IT what :p
But it’s true that, 95% of them do not care, “none of my business lah”, you know.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
I do agree at some point but I don’t think all are exceptionally apathetic politically. I do read political blogs all the time unless I do not have the internet. I have friends who are constantly well informed of our pathetic political direction. And by the way, it is all thanks to these bloggers that I have abandoned reading The Star (USED to be a big fan) few years back. Somehow, I lost my taste towards it. Just felt like ramming my head on the wall till ‘The Star’ comes out of my head!
November 13th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
This is going to be a rather lengthy reply, so I hope you will bear with me :)
When I was studying in New Zealand many years ago, it was proposed that university fees would be raised to a level which many students felt was unreasonable. Student protests were held on many campuses. However, there was one protest I heard about which I still remember till today, at the University of Canterbury which has a well-known engineering program. A group of student protesters had taken over the main registry building and were doing a peaceful sit-in to protest against uni fee increases. On the ground floor of the registry, it was a full-on party atmosphere, with the public dropping by to deliver food and offer support and students just singing, chanting and dancing (the sit-in lasted for a few days). Upstairs, in the offices and meeting rooms, some protest organizers (who as the story goes, were mainly engineering students) were quietly studying for their finals which were only a few weeks away.
Every time I remember this story, it makes me smile. It speaks of young people who are not afraid to make a stand for what they believe in, of young people who ‘inconvenienced’ themselves to support their fellow students. Student union reps from my uni traveled more than five hours one way to show solidarity with their fellow students at Canterbury. At the same time, the protest organizers were very grounded. They did not forget their priorities, which were to pass their exams. They had their eyes firmly on the future for themselves and also for the students that would come after them.
Coming back to your question why it seems that certain groups are politically apathetic, I think political apathy is not so defined by occupational types as it is about awareness of social and economic circumstances and how it influences how we think. Social apathy stems from lack of empathy. Empathy is the ability to put yourself in another person’s shoes, basically a deep awareness and consciousness about how the other person lives and how they feel. Empathy’s got nothing to do with how much money you have or what social class you belong too.
Unfortunately, money and social class can also insulate people from being made aware of how other people live and what they go through in their daily lives. Remember the story of Marie Antoinette? “Let them eat cake”.
Some people are truly ignorant about what happens around them outside the comfortable spheres of routine. Some people purposely insulate themselves so they can claim ignorance and/or they wash their hands of responsibility - “it’s someone else’s problem”, “they got themselves into trouble, why should I inconvenience myself to help them?”, etc. Some people are hard core cynics, whether circumstances made them that way, or they choose to make themselves cynics so they will not have to contend with a guilty conscience when faced with the unpleasant knowledge that other people may be living worse of than them - “the system will never change”, “all politicians are the same”, “better the devil you know than the one you don’t” etc.
Are our activists and politicians doing the right thing? Depends, ’cause different things affect people differently. It’s about creating awareness through upholding unvarnished truth and using that awareness to foster empathy, compassion, passion and hope. Winning the hearts and minds of voters always comes down to truth and trust. Do people think politicians and activists are telling the truth? Do people think they can trust what you say? Do they trust you to do what you said you would do?
If you can help the fence sitters and cynics to empathise with other people or make them passionate about taking a firm stand about the matters which affect them and those around them, and trust the activists and politicians…. maybe, we’ll see less political apathy :) The reason why so many people are unsatisfied with BN is because they see BN as arrogant and insulated from the problems of the common people, because they see some BN politicians as abusing their position to enrick themselves at the expense of the people, and because they feel they cannot trust BN to keep their word. If the opposition wants to win and keep on winning the hearts and minds of voters, don’t do the same mistakes BN are doing. Remember your promises of truth, fair treatment and a transparent government.
November 14th, 2007 at 12:48 am
may be they tend to be terrorists.. haha! (kidding)
November 14th, 2007 at 2:38 am
thinking: you should at the very least write for bolehland.com :D you’d be great! :D
November 14th, 2007 at 9:30 am
nat: lol, thanks for the compliment :D .
November 14th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Politics and Economy is everyone’s business as the policies implemented and decisions made by the government, inflation, performance of share market affect our daily lives, like it or not. It is everyone’s business, whether you are engineers or not.
Our nation was the 2nd most developed country in Asia at the time we became independent in 1957. Our country is free from major natural disaster and was/ is blessed with rich natural resources such as oil & gas, rubber, tin, palm oil. These commodities have cushioned our country from serious damage during financial crisis.
With these advantages, our country is in a very good position to be among the most developed and rich countries in Asia.
We were celebrating nation’s 50th anniversary. But do we have something that really worth celebrating?
During the past 20-30 years, China, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Singapore which are not as natural resources rich as our country, have developed rapidly and within considerably short period, has thrown Malaysia far behind in term of ranking. Our neighbours such as Thailand, Indonesia and Vietnam are catching up as well.
A survey done on the employment of fresh graduates in our country published in Oriental Daily dated 13 November 07 showed that 33% of our graduates are jobless and about 70% of them earning below RM 2000 a month. The escalation of living cost and low purchasing power has become a real concern. Malaysia had higher average earning/ per capita earlier compared to South Korea and Singapore but now we are VERY FAR behind them. Many Malaysians are struggling due to the high living cost and the situation is getting worse.
What has gone wrong and where has our money gone?
We often joke that Singaporeans are “Kiasu”. But because they are afraid to lose, they work really hard and that’s why their country is more developed than ours, they earn more than us, they have more reputable universities than us and the list goes on…
I hope for a change, a change for a better Malaysia. Somehow, I feel a bit “helpless” sometimes. I really don’t understand why there are quite a number of not so civilized and half-past-six “clowns” still elected as Members of Parliament?
Nevertheless, I believe there is still hope for a better Malaysia… Vote wisely
November 14th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Hi hun, attention grabbing is one thing :) but that’s a very broad sweeping statement don’t you think? I’m not an engineer myself, but I do know engineers and what they do and their contributions to the world. Some engineers might not care about which government is in charge, or they may not feel that their one vote might do that much, but they devote their lives to coming up with solutions from another angle. Such as developing technology to help in increasing food production for poverty stricken countries, so and so forth. Like I said before, politics is only one way to solve a problem. If other people can contribute in their own way, I think that’s good too.
But I have a feeling that you’re talking more about the kind of people that studied hard, got their degree, applied to some big company, got in, look towards next promotion, buy a Merc, send kids to uni… their lives revolve around themselves and what is directly connected to them. These aren’t neccessarily engineers, these are people from all walks in life, regardless of what occupation they have. And I don’t understand why that’s so bad either. Before you take care of the country, you take care of yourself, your family, etc.
I know politics are important, but there are other things in life that are important too. People prioritise things differently and they have a right to do so. Similarly, people have a right to contribute to the country/world in a way other than through politics.
Luv
eel
November 14th, 2007 at 10:33 am
Dear mahendran:
Engineers solve problems. Engineers have to think intelligently and are not trained to be someone like you have mentioned mentioned. “maybe its bcoz they were trained in such way..read the book, follow procedure..just like the computer programmers..they just follow procedures and steps ..wouldn’t venture out from it..
Share with you all the following jokes. (Just jokes, no offence to those in HR):
Joke #1:
Eleven people were dangling below a helicopter on a rope. There were ten HR people and one engineer. Since the rope was not strong enough to hold all the eleven, they decided that one of them had to let go to save all the others.
They could not decide who should be the volunteer. Finally the engineer said he would let go of the rope since engineers are used to do everything for the company. They forsake their family, don’t claim all of their expenses and do a lot of overtime without getting anything in return.
When he finished his moving speech all the HR people began to clap…
Joke #2:
A group of engineers and a group of HR people take a train to a conference. Each HR person holds a ticket. But the entire group of engineers has bought only one ticket for a single passenger. The HR people are just shaking their heads and are secretly pleased that the arrogant engineers will finally get what they deserve.
Suddenly one of the engineers calls out: “The conductor is coming!”. At once, all the engineers jump up and squeeze into one of the toilets. The conductor checks the tickets of the HR people. When he notices that the toilet is occupied he knocks on the door and says: “Ticket, please!” One of the engineers slides the single ticket under the doors and the conductor continues merrily on his round.
For the return trip the HR people decide to use the same trick. They buy only one ticket for the entire group but they are baffled as they realize that the engineers didn’t buy any tickets at all. After a while one of the engineers announces again: “The conductor is coming!” Immediately all the HR people race to a toilet and lock themselves in.
All the engineers leisurely walk to the other toilet. Before the last engineer enters the toilet, he knocks on the toilet occupied by the HR people and says: “Ticket, please!”
Joke #3:
Once upon a time three HR people were walking through the woods and suddenly they were standing in front of a huge, wild river. But they desperately had to get to the other side. But how, with such a raging torrent? The first HR guy knelt down and prayed to the Lord: “Lord, please give me the strength to cross this river! ”
*pppppfffffffuuuuffffffff*
The Lord gave him long arms and strong legs. Now he could swim across the river. It took him about two hours and he almost drowned several times.
BUT… he was successful!
The second HR guy, who observed this, prayed to the Lord and said: “Lord, please give me the strength AND the necessary tools to cross this river!”
*pppppfffffffuuuuffffffff*
The Lord gave him a tub and he managed to cross the river despite the fact that the tub almost capsized a couple of times.
BUT… he was successful!
The third HR man who observed all this kneeled down and prayed: “Lord, please give me the strength, the means and the intelligence to cross this river!”
*pppppfffffffuuuuffffffff*
The Lord converted the HR man into an engineer. He took a quick glance on the map, walked a few meters upstream and crossed the bridge.
November 14th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Well, your statement’s not true. I’m an engineer, and I’ve been following news since I was in elementary school :)
Part of it was true, though. I AM working abroad, which was the only reason why I wasn’t there on 10-Eleven. And then there’s that forum I read about on the judiciary, scheduled on the 16th. Bloody unfair~! I can’t go!!!
But I can understand why many people are indifferent towards politics and political issues. It’s BECAUSE they see it as a “political” issue, which many relate directly to political parties. There’s hardly any personal participation in our (superficial) democracy. The election is a farce, “elected” MPs are arrogant, government machinery is in severe need of a total OVERHAUL. Which naturally means throw away the defects and get new ones, haha!
For a few months after starting my career, I was reading The Sun online, and truth be told, it can be rather disappointing reading on all the shit that happens. And the worst is that NOTHING is done.
So are all engineers politically apathetic? Nope. They’re just like everyone else. It’s all about awareness, and commitment. After that few depressing months, I decided that I had to do something. And immediately after getting back to Malaysia, I registered as a voter (last year). Been reading blogs, online news, and national discussions more diligently than ever since. And when I read about the BERSIH rally for electoral reform? Woo hoo! At last, a chance to do something.
I could go, so I did the only thing I could stuck out here: tell all my friends. Emails, blog, Live Messenger, you name it. Haha!
Keep up the good work, all! Some of us were not there, but I can assure you, we’re there in spirit. And I sure as hell will be there if I’m ever back home.
November 14th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
more input anybody?
i’ve been seeking answers as to why people are politically apathetic for the longest time. my understanding has always been the world has taken a turn where materialism has gotten the best of us … people want big car, big house, holidays and objects. the idea of compassion or fighting for the needy is no longer in the picture. sure people have different priorities. it’s like how can the kampung man fighting to feed his family be bothered to protest on the streets because one days earning’s can make a difference? but what people don’t seem to see, his situation is CAUSED by politics which spills over to economic and social issues.
anyway, i really appreciate all the feedback everybody. i will be asking another question soon and picking my readers’ brains for more ideas. thanks again! :)
November 14th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I find Chinese youths are the most politically apathetic. I am a Chinese and whenever I mentioned this subject, I’ll be greeted with an indifferent attitude as though they are saying, We are not interested in politics..whoever in the govt is none of our business” or they simply ‘we-are-not-voting-cos-it-aint-gonna-change-a damn-thing’ attitude.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
It’s not just engineers that are apathetic. It’s people from all walks of life.
Malaysians need to change their minds about themselves instead of changing the minds of others.
How many of us have this ‘What to do lah’ mentality or ‘ Like that lah’ mentality?
When we think like that, we’re more or less resigning ourselves to the situation.
How many of us work more than 40 hours a week without OT being paid, because “it’s like that lah”.
You see what Malaysians are up against?
Many just can’t get the idea that there is ALWAYS a better way of doing things, saying things or resolving asituation.
In addition to that, most Malaysians think with their race first, and Malaysian second. That’s why many seem to think it’s a certain race’s problem. What they don’t realise is that when they do not participate proactively or even by being more aware of how things are done, they are condemning their children and future generations just by not being proactive.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
You’ll be surprised at how many there are that thinks this country is run on auto-remote (or is it?) and they practically think that with or without a government, they’ll still get their daily roti canai, etc.
I know of young cikus who would proudly proclaim that they are not into politics, like as if that would make then the “ultimate yuppy”…almost slapped their ignorant faces….
November 15th, 2007 at 12:26 am
Well, I have to agree with you up to certain extend. I am someone very much related to the field of electrical and electronics engineering and as far as I see, lots of people around me don’t bother much about politics and social happenings in Malaysia. They observe and complaint about stuffs, including the petrol price hike and other sensitive matters but they are not willing to be part of the change. They tend to keep their mouth shut whenever they need to voice out - may be because they are living a good lifestyle and think that the political issues are not going to affect their good living, as engineers usually attached to multinational companies and not with local or government agencies. But, I will not point my finger at all the engineers. The situation is changing for good. Lately, I feel that the awareness among young professionals, engineers especially has increased and they are at least keeping track with online news and blogs to update themselves with the latest political and social happenings in this country that are often being blacked out by the mainstream medias. But, I wonder.. if they are willing to step forward and show their support to make things better like how my 40,000 brothers and sisters did a few days ago.
November 15th, 2007 at 1:37 am
HEY! Walski’s an engineer and therefore totally resents the insinuation that ALL engineers are politically apathetic.
Okay, okay… Walski’s not at all a good example, he’ll grant you that… I have some possible theories on why you would think many engineers are apathetic politically:
1. Focus on work - too busy to think about anything else that “seemingly” doesn’t effect them. I don’t know about Civil Engineers, but those involved with the Oil & Gas industry are currently riding the wave of high crude prices - hence, the amount of engineering work has increased many-fold in the last 3 years, and expected to remain strong for at least another 2 - 3 years. They personally may have political views, but are too darned busy with work to do anything about it.
2. Work mobility - as you pointed out, the market for engineers is vibrant, and if the shit really hits the fan, then it’s cut and run time…
3. Company affiliation with the incumbent - having political views contrary to the company owners’ (particularly true of Malaysian companies) is not particularly healthy for one’s career - or the perception that it isn’t anyway. Let u in on a small secret - the company I work for is very pro-BN at the senior management level, and we minions tend to keep our views to ourselves. You never know who might be listening… I remember when the price of crude first started spiralling upwards, an e-mail that questioned the price hike of petroleum products was rebuffed by a senior manager, saying something to the effect that “we should be grateful to the Govt” and not talk about things like this…
So, there u have it - 3 reasons that I can think of… from first-hand knowledge, anyways.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Hi there polytikus.
I’m an engineering student currently doing my 3rd year in one of our local universities in Malaysia. (probably the youngest here I hope)
It is of no surprise to me that many of my friends are very ignorant of our political state in our country as they are likely be more interested in self gratification activities such as computer games and the likes.
When I start blabbering about politics to my friends, I’m normally the one telling the long grandfather stories I picked up from m2day. At the very least, they seem to be interested in listening to events that are happening in this country.
However, I do know some friends who are quite aware of what’s actually happening in our country as well. Most of them depend on m2day and a few I know goes to merdekareview for their fix.
Hope that helps.
November 15th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
:o no waaaaay! Computer games are waaay more important than politics Grrrrrr.
I know computer games ain’t going to change the world as much as politics, but don’t look down on it, that just hits below the belt. *sniff sniff*
;)
November 15th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Wow, another third year engineering student who’s into politics. What a surprise - that makes two of us in the entire public university system!
Seriously though, the reason I think most engineering students (at least the ones I know) don’t give shit about politics is because of the way they were brought up. The Malays are happily getting by with their university lives, confident and content with the knowledge that their special rights, unfair uni entrance schemes, scholarships, etc. will still be there no matter what while the non-Malays are so sensitized to the same crap (they might call it injustices, but that’s about as far as they’re willing to go) that they don’t go head on in opposition to these policies anymore. Instead, they just go around them. And going around the system probably means graduating, getting a job that pays a lot of money and finally, maybe, migrating.
You can argue that I’m painting non-Malays in a very selfish light here, but would you disagree? How many non-Malays do you know who have the same opinion on life?
Cheers, people.
November 16th, 2007 at 1:00 am
I’m a.. Software Engineer? I care about politics because I care about where I am currently staying and how much I can contribute to it for changes.
To be honest, other IT guys around me do not give a shit about politics. I believe this is due to the analytical (not really the smart one) and result-/delivery-oriented mind. I have engaged in a few conversations about my political views, my support for some political/freedom/human-rights activities, etc. and the response I got were:
- You are being manipulated. Politicians are dangerous. (Oh, aren’t they when they just rely on local media?)
- You can’t change Malaysia, if it’s possible, it would have been done.
- What is the outcome? The same old shit remains.
- I can write more code for the time spent on reading/getting involved in those things.
I usually would tell them: “If you don’t know, ask. If you are not supporting (after knowing), STFU. Don’t discourage others if you do not care at all.”
yc
November 16th, 2007 at 9:32 am
heck no, engineers are not apathetic..
like someone mentioned above, some just love routine life so much; they’d do anything to preserve it